Curse

JR · Jan 21, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

It is FAR, FAR too early to be jumping on the OMGNERFPLZ bandwagon.

Guardian of the Light · Jan 21, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Come on guys this just got out and ALREADY you'll calling for a nerf. Remember we don't know all the counters I don't think assassin's are good at self-healing.

I notice Assassins can kill warriors very easily however every time I get a nerco on me that keeps hiting me with deg and direct damage attacks I get my @ss handed to me >.<.

BigTru · Jan 21, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Why not give an example of a few of these comboes before shouting "NERF NERF NERF"?

Rikimaru · Jan 21, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

The only time i'm able to jump in, kill a caster, then teleport out is when i use shadow step, rush past everyone to the caster in the back (with **60** defense) unload my chain on him while he was completely un-prepared and barely buffed because the fight had just started and he was still hiding, then hack away with auto attack and half-chains. By the time shadow step runs out and sends me away from the zerg that had ensued i'm left with roughly half health and the caster is NEARLY dead, and killed a few seconds later by the degen.
This is only possible at all if you do it at the very start of the match or have 1-2 other assassins come with you.
Also, this doesnt work later on in the fight because a giant melee has usually occured, and all you can do is fight normally.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jan 21, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

The biggest difference between an assasin and warrior in terms of damage are their timing.

Assasin can do a rush down almost no warrior can do as good (there are still a few, but not like assasin which is all about early rush down).
When warrior is full charged with andrenline, I don not believe anyone can hit as hard as them.

One is early game beat down, another is closing game finish up.

I am willing to bet, an 8vs8... more warrior is still better than more assasin. However, as we all know, that can not be always true.

VGJustice · Jan 21, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by heist23

i'm thinking skills like Riposte and Deadly Riposte could help out a lot here.

ZOMG SWORD WAR FTW! XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by heist23

Enchantment removal, Wild Blow and other skills could help shut down an Assasin on the field.

I'm getting really curious about these guys. Do they apply hexes with their attacks, or is it all status effects? 'Cause, if it's hexes, Smite Hex could be funny.

Lady Lozza · Jan 21, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

The point of the assassin is to take down early targets quickly, and they are most effective (obviously) against those with poor armour - like casters. Once they have used their initial chain, they are near useless till skills and energy recharge. Over-powered? No.

Kamatsu · Jan 21, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

I'm getting really curious about these guys. Do they apply hexes with their attacks, or is it all status effects? 'Cause, if it's hexes, Smite Hex could be funny.

They do get to cast hex's on target's as well as having attack skills which benefit from the target having a hex on them (just look at the A/W pre-made).

Course this doesn't mean the assassin needs to bring any hex's themselves.. just bring along a friendly mesmer or necro who drops hex's on the enemies...

And as for status effect's.. some are just caused by being a follow up attack, some are caused by the target having hex's on them (again, see the pre-made A/W).

Most A/*'s I've seen don't rely on the hex then attack chain of spells. I have to admit I've used the hex-attack chain a lot.. it's great vs those annoying running boogars.. since your 1st attack after the hex cripples them

(assuming you hit them of course..). Most of the A/* I've come across use a high damage output chain , not so much condition's.. although giving the right timing they can't chain me (hehe gotta love evade/block skills.. hehe)

Assassin's aren't over-powered as there are way too many ways to counter them.. Blinding, blocking, evasion... an Assassin vs anything other than a warrior or a stance using ranger will be deadly if they can get their full chain off and the target isn't being supported.. it's even more deadly if the Assassin has backup... but once that chain is done they have to wait for the skills to recharge - only exception is if they manage to kill with mobius strike (I think thats the skill).. then all skills are recharged and ready to use.. Energy denial would work too.. since no energy = no atatck's... and if you deny them in the middle of their chain.. they are stuck then having to re-start the chain...

LaserLight · Jan 21, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Alright, let's get this thing settled.

First off, THEY'VE ONLY BEEN OUT FOR A DAY! Given that, people have next to no idea what they're capable of and next to no idea how to counter them. As well as very little idea how to play them. I only really saw one competent Assassin all day - the others were simply using the new-ness of the class to hammer things. The most effective teams, in fact, where the teams that are usually effective. Personally, I was a whole lot more annoyed by the Rt/Mo guys running around everywhere than by A/W. There's gonna be a lot more siege-style battles with those dudes around...

And putting just a teensy bit of logical thought into it, you get what has basically been said. An Assassin can hit someone harder than just about any class in the game, and certainly for less effort. Sure, an Echo/Obsidian Flame El can hit for about equivalent damage, but that's 20 Exhaustion. However, let's dissect this, shall we?

First Point - skill stream. Yes, when an Assassin delivers its full skill stream, foes are sent reeling. However, if you truly think this to be such a simple, everyday occurance, go take a Fang of Melandru into the arenas and see how many times you can land the whole bloody thing. Out of roughly ten fights I fought with a Fang, I landed the entire combo, perhaps, four times. That's four times against forty foes, plus resurrects. People just don't stick around and let you wail on them, ye know. Even Warriors will bolt when an Assassin starts unloading.

Second Point - conditions. Ahem: OMG TEH AZAZNZ CN UZ CONDISHUNS. Dude, just no. Rangers, and Virulence characters of all stripes, have been doing the same crap since the game started. Besides, in order to land all those conditions, the entire skill stream has to connect, which has been proven to be nucking hard.

Third Point - Armor. Must I note that both of the other physical classes have a default 30-point advantage over the Assassin? The dudes are fairly fragile, which isn't good considering that they're a dedicated melee class. Also, looking at the available armor types for Assassin, I really don't think they'll be getting any massively armored suits. And those that do will likely be like the Mesmer's Rogue armor, and hurt the Assassin's energy.

Fourth Point - Running. Okay, yeah, chasing down an Assassin is a stone...female dog. However, I would like to point out two things. First of all, Assassins are as blatantly biased towards hit and run tactics as a class can get. Saying Assassins are overpowered because they're hard to catch is like saying Rangers are overpowered because they can attack from range. And secondly...THEY'RE ASSASSINS!! Think, just a smidge, about the background of the actual, real-life guys these dudes were patterned after, and then tell me why on Earth they're supposed to be no big deal to run down? Personally, I have a lot of fun on both ends - doing the running and chasing the runner. I like mobile battles, they make a guy think a bit more than usual. And really, in the end, don't you always manage to catch him anyways?

In summary, Assassins are fairly blatantly glass cannons - guys that can do a buttload of damage to a single target in a short period of time and pay for it with minimal defenses. They're quick and agile (which is typically a given when you're working with NINJAS), and have a lot of interesting stuff, but the pretty severe limits on their attacks (need to stream) and their lack of heavy, consistent defenses means that they need every drop of that agility to survive on the battlefield.

Me, I'm more worried about Ritualists. Watching my brother Rupture three Spirits one after another and vaporize an entire 4-man team really makes me wonder if the blind dudes aren't going to end up as the superior class when Factions releases and more concrete, viable opinions can be formed.

Lady Lozza · Jan 21, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

I agree, the ritualist does seem a little (even perhaps a lot) overpowered. I would think that perhaps new skills for the core professions will come into play.

Rajamic · Jan 21, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I had little trouble controlling Assassin damage on my Boon/Bond monk. Played for about 6 hours and found very few that could even threaten my health 2-on-1. They don't tend to have huge single hits, so Shielding Hands works well against them. And they hit so frequently that Balth Spirit gives loads of energy.

It was more the Eles using Shadowsteps to pbAoE that were a problem.

Phades · Jan 21, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

The only time i'm able to jump in, kill a caster, then teleport out is when i use shadow step, rush past everyone to the caster in the back (with **60** defense) unload my chain on him while he was completely un-prepared and barely buffed because the fight had just started and he was still hiding, then hack away with auto attack and half-chains. By the time shadow step runs out and sends me away from the zerg that had ensued i'm left with roughly half health and the caster is NEARLY dead, and killed a few seconds later by the degen.
This is only possible at all if you do it at the very start of the match or have 1-2 other assassins come with you.
Also, this doesnt work later on in the fight because a giant melee has usually occured, and all you can do is fight normally.

Bolded for truth. In the 4v4s ive fought, ive never died to a single assasin as any caster class. Sad thing is wars do exactly the same thing in a shorter time frame and are harder to kill, while possesing options like gale to render longer periods of time where the target is unable to respond. The nastiest things the assasin gets is the eliete temple strike and the one that inflicts dazed if the target has any exhaustion. The rest of the skills are kinda meh, except for the ones geared towards relic and flag runs. Those run skills can easily be in any secondary profession however.

What i do find funny is when assasins try to do this rush that the quoted person described and just fold under the attention they gain while trying to do so. Most of them die before they teleport away, while others die from degen afterwards. Sometimes they escape alive, but spend the rest of the game avoiding the target(s) they charged initially.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajamic

It was more the Eles using Shadowsteps to pbAoE that were a problem.

Lol fear the teleporting shock/AS eles.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 21, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I pwned Ass Warriors all day. The trick with them is managing conditions. No, they don't need a nerf. Yet.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 21, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

What i do find funny is when assasins try to do this rush that the quoted person described and just fold under the attention they gain while trying to do so. Most of them die before they teleport away, while others die from degen afterwards. Sometimes they escape alive, but spend the rest of the game avoiding the target(s) they charged initially.

What's funny are the Ass Warriors (yes, I do like that) who try to run at the end like they are Rangers, but you notice on the map where they intitiate their Shadow move and camp it. Then bomb them. :P

LaserLight · Jan 21, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Of course, when players have been using the new classes for more than a day, those Shadow Step campers are gonna end up on the recieving end of a whole bunch of nastiness. Thirteen seconds can be plenty long enough to recharge enough energy and skills for a skill stream on whoever's decided to get cheeky with them. So don't get too confident, eh Old Man Bourbuns? :-P

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 21, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Yes, sir.

o.O

Better remind all the Ass Warrior campers not to recharge all their crap, too, though. :P

ange1 · Jan 21, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

have you tried assasin knockdowns? with conditions, it's definately a monks worst enemy, worse than hammer worrior with gale

The First Attacker · Jan 21, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Assassins have too many running skills. I had to quit arenas because one kept running etc.

Zeal · Jan 21, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Well i have been playing with my R/A for day now (character age is 14hours)
I use stances that no melee can hit me and yes warriors cant do anything to me BUT i can't do anything vs mesmers and elementalist.

Eles and mesmers can easily kill Assasin and if im opposing a A/W he usually can't do nothing against R/A whos using stances.

IMO Assasins are underpowered.

dr_james2k · Jan 21, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

I've killed loads of assains so far in pvp. Much more then any other type probabley. They're suckers for empathy.